| thomasboimah | ACTION sign off to go to bed | 00:00 |
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| resl | Thank you! Just finished working on other things for the night and am reading these late - need to get my notifcations working for my IRC client. I have not allowed anything to notify me of new messages in years... But now I have good reason to do that, so sorry for the lag in reply time - I will be better with that soon! | 00:49 |
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| jelkner | wow, smohamud, are you up at this hour? | 10:17 |
| smohamud | Yes sir | 10:22 |
| smohamud | I was looking at Thomas's commit among other things. Looks good. | 10:23 |
| smohamud | Rachel is on the Nova Web Dev Team page | 10:23 |
| jelkner | But where are you, comrade? | 10:24 |
| smohamud | He may not have had time or all the information to add me | 10:24 |
| smohamud | I imagine today he'll do it. | 10:24 |
| jelkner | i figured they would add both of you at the same time | 10:24 |
| smohamud | Same | 10:24 |
| jelkner | i'll ask dcammue about that when i see him today | 10:24 |
| smohamud | +1 | 10:25 |
| smohamud | Rachel is more critical because she's interfacing with our partners and whatnot. | 10:25 |
| jelkner | but you will be too, any minute now, right? | 10:27 |
| jelkner | and when you do, we want you there already | 10:27 |
| jelkner | we all represent our co-op | 10:27 |
| jelkner | so we all need to be there | 10:27 |
| jelkner | btw, comrade, i could use your help with the web dev training | 10:29 |
| jelkner | i'm not asking you to do anything | 10:29 |
| jelkner | but just to be aware of what i'm trying to do, so you can back me up in your interactions with the students | 10:29 |
| jelkner | dcammue emailed me today asking if we are continuing with php today or returning to HTML & CSS. | 10:30 |
| jelkner | i emailed him back asking him "What do you think we should do, and why?" | 10:30 |
| jelkner | my aim is to get dcammue to "own the problem" | 10:30 |
| jelkner | he will need more experience to really be able to do that | 10:30 |
| jelkner | but i'm asking questions intentionally designed to help encourage critical thinking | 10:31 |
| smohamud | Yes, I will. | 10:31 |
| smohamud | I think we should get it up ASAP | 10:31 |
| smohamud | +1 | 10:31 |
| smohamud | dcamme is the business manager? | 10:32 |
| jelkner | we should work towards it, but there are no short cuts | 10:32 |
| jelkner | +1 | 10:32 |
| jelkner | yes he is | 10:32 |
| smohamud | How come he's asking about languages | 10:32 |
| jelkner | lol | 10:32 |
| jelkner | we' | 10:32 |
| jelkner | we're a co-op | 10:32 |
| jelkner | we tend to do what needs to be done | 10:32 |
| smohamud | Ok. | 10:32 |
| jelkner | one great thing about being a worker owner is you are not locked into a role | 10:33 |
| smohamud | +1 | 10:33 |
| jelkner | i will focus a lot on the business side of things when i'm there with him in july | 10:33 |
| smohamud | side note: I'm excited about Rachel's sociocracy ideas for us. | 10:33 |
| jelkner | +1 | 10:33 |
| jelkner | she brings a lot to us | 10:33 |
| jelkner | we have a great group going into our "launch" | 10:33 |
| smohamud | As far as what to learn, it really depends. | 10:34 |
| smohamud | My recommendation: start from front-end to back-end. | 10:34 |
| smohamud | PHP is something that somebody who struggles to grasp HTML will not be able to grasp | 10:35 |
| smohamud | HTML/CSS is more digestible to get someone going from thinking about programming languages in a way that they see tangible concrete results on the screen. | 10:35 |
| smohamud | "Oh, I type this and then that button shows up. If I have a typo, it breaks down" | 10:35 |
| smohamud | That's something much more observable in HTML/CSS | 10:35 |
| smohamud | However, it depends - where's their current PHP knowledge | 10:36 |
| smohamud | And where' their current HTML/CSS knowledge | 10:36 |
| jelkner | smohamud, i think we need to approach this with what we call a "spiraling curriculum" | 10:36 |
| smohamud | I would need to talk to prospective students. | 10:36 |
| jelkner | i try to use backwards design | 10:37 |
| smohamud | +1 | 10:37 |
| jelkner | what are the outcomes i want to achieve? | 10:37 |
| jelkner | a broad understanding of how the web works | 10:37 |
| smohamud | +1 | 10:37 |
| jelkner | so i only introduced php now because i wanted them to see html/css/js in terms of how it relates to the "big picture" | 10:38 |
| jelkner | from the conversation, i realized it is better not to push too hard on that now | 10:38 |
| jelkner | since they are not fully ready for it | 10:38 |
| jelkner | no harm done | 10:38 |
| jelkner | since we will spiral back here again | 10:38 |
| smohamud | +! | 10:38 |
| jelkner | so yes, it's time to get back to front end | 10:38 |
| smohamud | +1 | 10:38 |
| jelkner | where they will have a certification exam to pass | 10:39 |
| smohamud | I like that. They say to skim all chapters of a book to retain what you read better. | 10:39 |
| jelkner | as a concrete measure of their skills attainment | 10:39 |
| smohamud | Then, start and deep read from the beginning. | 10:39 |
| jelkner | +1 | 10:39 |
| smohamud | +1 | 10:39 |
| jelkner | oh look, here comes thomasboimah | 10:39 |
| jelkner | Good morning! | 10:39 |
| smohamud | Ok, this certification process is interesting. Curious what certs they're seeking. | 10:40 |
| smohamud | GM Tboimah | 10:40 |
| jelkner | smohamud: they aren't seeking them, i am | 10:40 |
| thomasboimah | good morning | 10:40 |
| jelkner | https://edube.org/study/html-essentials | 10:40 |
| smohamud | +1 | 10:40 |
| jelkner | https://jsinstitute.org/wde-certification | 10:40 |
| smohamud | They're taking the exams, though. | 10:41 |
| smohamud | Yes? | 10:41 |
| jelkner | +1 | 10:41 |
| smohamud | +1 | 10:41 |
| jelkner | this is the cert cjones offers in his web class | 10:41 |
| smohamud | Tboimah - I was v happy with your commit and have a couple questions. | 10:41 |
| jelkner | cjones and i have a good relationship with the vendor | 10:41 |
| jelkner | and we like them | 10:41 |
| smohamud | +1 | 10:41 |
| jelkner | they were the first to offer recognized Python certs | 10:42 |
| jelkner | PCEP, PCAP | 10:42 |
| smohamud | +1 | 10:42 |
| jelkner | now they are branching out | 10:42 |
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| jelkner | btw, comrade, thanks for showing up here | 10:43 |
| jelkner | this is starting to be what i hope it will become | 10:43 |
| jelkner | a place to "hang out" | 10:43 |
| jelkner | and run into people unexpectedly | 10:43 |
| jelkner | that will lead to organic development of our work, and our relationships | 10:44 |
| smohamud | +1 | 10:44 |
| smohamud | You made it easy, it boots without me opening it | 10:44 |
| smohamud | lol | 10:44 |
| jelkner | nice! | 10:44 |
| jelkner | that's the way to do it | 10:44 |
| jelkner | i'll be here during the early shift | 10:44 |
| smohamud | I enjoy bumping into people unexpectedly. | 10:45 |
| jelkner | so i'll get to hang out with the insomniacs ;-) | 10:45 |
| smohamud | We have our work cut out for us. The more we harmonize and synergize, the more effective we become. | 10:45 |
| jelkner | +1!! | 10:45 |
| smohamud | lol | 10:45 |
| smohamud | So, when we're in jetro, is the convention to limit to jetro-related talk or novaweb + jetro | 10:46 |
| smohamud | As much as limiting can be done, at least. | 10:46 |
| jelkner | that's a great question | 10:46 |
| jelkner | i have hexchat configured for all 3 of our logged channels | 10:46 |
| jelkner | novawebdev, jetrowebdev and sjcompute | 10:47 |
| jelkner | but since jetro folks are here most often | 10:47 |
| jelkner | i tend to converse here | 10:47 |
| smohamud | +1 | 10:47 |
| jelkner | weekends its different | 10:47 |
| jelkner | zOnny makes things happen in #novawebdev | 10:47 |
| smohamud | for the sake of analyzing our records later, and not confusing interested parties, we should prob make an effort to distinguish between the two. | 10:48 |
| jelkner | ok, i gotta get ready for incoming students | 10:48 |
| smohamud | +1 | 10:48 |
| jelkner | only for meetings | 10:48 |
| jelkner | otherwise it doesn't matter | 10:48 |
| smohamud | +1 | 10:50 |
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| thomasboimah | Good morning jelkner | 11:03 |
| jelkner | Good morning thomasboimah | 11:06 |
| jelkner | check out the logs from this morning | 11:06 |
| thomasboimah | okay | 11:06 |
| jelkner | then let's chat a minute | 11:06 |
| thomasboimah | ACTION going to read the log | 11:07 |
| thomasboimah | ACTION done reading the log | 11:14 |
| jelkner | great, now dcammue needs to read it | 11:17 |
| jelkner | thomasboimah, dcammue got an email from me this morning | 11:17 |
| jelkner | are you in the office, thomasboimah? | 11:17 |
| jelkner | i'm really looking forward to my visit | 11:17 |
| thomasboimah | On I am home preparing to get there | 11:17 |
| jelkner | i need to understand jetro web logistics much better | 11:18 |
| thomasboimah | Will be their in 30 min or hour from now | 11:18 |
| jelkner | who lives where, and how they need to get from one place to another | 11:18 |
| jelkner | that will be so important in planning | 11:18 |
| jelkner | it's all about logistics ;-) | 11:18 |
| thomasboimah | +1 | 11:18 |
| jelkner | dcammue: i am hoping to prod you all in the direction of leadership | 11:19 |
| jelkner | which means you develop a deep understanding of what we are trying to do | 11:19 |
| jelkner | and then can make plans accordingly | 11:19 |
| jelkner | it's great having sahnun with us now | 11:19 |
| jelkner | since he brings the deep insight we need | 11:20 |
| dcammue | Okay, jelkner | 11:20 |
| jelkner | you can see from our chat on this channel this morning | 11:20 |
| jelkner | in what we are trying to accomplish, there are no "right answers" | 11:20 |
| dcammue | ACTION goes read the logs | 11:20 |
| jelkner | there are trade-offs, constantly needing to balance one thing against other things | 11:21 |
| jelkner | more of an art than a science | 11:21 |
| jelkner | but science helps a lot | 11:21 |
| jelkner | ACTION lets dcammue read the logs | 11:21 |
| dcammue | ACTION done readings the logs | 11:28 |
| dcammue | That was great chat | 11:29 |
| dcammue | jelkner: | 11:31 |
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| smohamud | Hi tboimah | 11:49 |
| smohamud | anything I can provide you to help you add me to Nova Web Team page? | 11:50 |
| jelkner | thomasboimah: please respond | 11:59 |
| jelkner | we need to get smohamud on that page | 11:59 |
| jelkner | class is starting for me | 11:59 |
| jelkner | be back later... | 11:59 |
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| thomasboimah | Hi smohamud | 12:03 |
| thomasboimah | Yes | 12:03 |
| thomasboimah | sorry for the late reply | 12:03 |
| thomasboimah | I will need you Bio and photo | 12:03 |
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| thomasboimah | smohamud, are you still here | 12:04 |
| thomasboimah | Sorry i step out to used the bathroom | 12:04 |
| thomasboimah | *your | 12:04 |
| thomasboimah | jelkner, are you still here | 12:06 |
| thomasboimah | Sorry i step out to used the bathroom | 12:06 |
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| thomasboimah | Smohamud you are now on the Novaweb site. | 12:52 |
| thomasboimah | But I guess you will want to edit your bio, since it is the bio on the sjcompute site I use. | 12:52 |
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| jelkner | thomasboimah: one more task | 14:45 |
| jelkner | the image should be monochrome | 14:45 |
| jelkner | but thanks! | 14:45 |
| jelkner | dcammue: did you read the logs? | 14:45 |
| jelkner | thomasboimah: are you still here? | 15:08 |
| thomasboimah | Yes | 15:09 |
| jelkner | did you see what i wrote about sahnun's picture? | 15:09 |
| jelkner | it needs to be monochrome | 15:10 |
| jelkner | like the rest | 15:10 |
| thomasboimah | Yeah | 15:10 |
| jelkner | that is super easy to do with GIMP | 15:10 |
| jelkner | one more thing (there will be lots, but i'll give them to you one at a time ;-) | 15:10 |
| thomasboimah | Okay | 15:11 |
| jelkner | we need to fix the bottom of the home page | 15:12 |
| jelkner | https://novawebdevelopment.coop/ | 15:12 |
| jelkner | removing Santa Ana, SV | 15:12 |
| jelkner | and replacing it with Pittsburg, PA and Harper's Ferry, WV for now | 15:12 |
| jelkner | that will change as folks move around the world ;-) | 15:12 |
| jelkner | or we recruit new members from different places | 15:13 |
| jelkner | but i like having it | 15:13 |
| thomasboimah | Alright | 15:13 |
| jelkner | it brands us as a global organization | 15:13 |
| thomasboimah | Yep! | 15:15 |
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| dcammue | jelkner: | 15:24 |
| jelkner | dcammue: | 15:27 |
| dcammue | jelkner: | 15:28 |
| freena | Hi jelkner, jkollie, dcammue and thomasboimah | 15:29 |
| dcammue | Hi freena | 15:30 |
| jkollie | Hi freena, jelkner and dcammue | 15:30 |
| dcammue | Hello jkollie | 15:30 |
| thomasboimah | Hi freena | 15:31 |
| jelkner | hi all | 15:31 |
| jelkner | students are arriving... | 15:32 |
| jkollie | dcammue | 15:40 |
| kthomas | hi | 15:47 |
| freena | Hi kthomas | 15:47 |
| jelkner | do folks have any questions for me? | 15:48 |
| jelkner | and thomasboimah i'm glad you're here | 15:48 |
| jelkner | we need to chat | 15:48 |
| jkollie | +1 jelkner | 15:49 |
| thomasboimah | Okay | 15:49 |
| jelkner | go for it jkollie | 15:49 |
| jkollie | Is there a way for you to share a link or book that we can get PHP lesson from ? | 15:49 |
| jkollie | just like the way we are using edube.org for Html and CSS | 15:50 |
| jelkner | jkollie: i recommend you not worry about php now | 15:50 |
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| jelkner | my goal in introducing it was *not* to have you start writing it yet | 15:50 |
| jelkner | that would be too many things to learn at once | 15:51 |
| jkollie | Okay jelkner | 15:51 |
| jkollie | got you | 15:51 |
| jelkner | i wanted to introduce it last class because i want you to begin developing a high level view of everything | 15:52 |
| jelkner | you will learn specific skills and then combine them into a full stack web application | 15:52 |
| jelkner | with all its many pieces | 15:52 |
| jelkner | make sense? | 15:53 |
| jkollie | +1 | 15:53 |
| freena | +1 | 15:53 |
| jelkner | your next task should be WDE certification | 15:53 |
| freena | Sure | 15:55 |
| jelkner | thomasboimah: what happened with the JavaScript testing Mulbah was going to look into | 15:57 |
| jelkner | btw, today was *SUPER* exciting | 15:57 |
| jelkner | Kara, Josh and Ben delivered a wonderful working app | 15:58 |
| thomasboimah | I think he's on it | 15:58 |
| thomasboimah | That's good to know jelkner ! | 15:58 |
| thomasboimah | Please Extend my Congratulations to them! | 15:59 |
| jelkner | Check this out: | 16:01 |
| jelkner | https://codeberg.org/GraceHopperCenter/ghctechlib/ | 16:01 |
| jelkner | they have it deployed on a server in our classroom | 16:02 |
| jelkner | so it's running all the time, and i can add books | 16:02 |
| thomasboimah | Nice! | 16:03 |
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| thomasboimah | ACTION going somewhere, will be back in some min | 16:28 |
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| thomasboimah | Hi smohamud | 21:19 |
| smohamud | Hi thomas | 21:44 |
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| zOnny | dcammue: Hi | 23:24 |
| zOnny | dcammue: Are you here? | 23:24 |
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